WW2 Poison Dart

Except that the corollaryis to play by the rules and risk losing. No prizes for coming an honourable second, unfortunately. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying you aren't necessarily right. I wouldn't say I was right in all circumstances either. Clearly, the Nazis were an exception ... but even then, if we were to stoop to their level and adopt their wanton disregard for life ... what then would we be defending? We'd essentially have become the same thing anyway, thus rendering the war utterly pointless. Although, even the Nazis observed some limits -- iirc they avoided bombing population centers until after the US/UK started the practice. I will leave the door open to being wrong on that point, as I'm certain Britons have a much more informed perspective on the aerial bombing campaigns of ww2. Yeah, when you're fighting psychopaths it's probably a good policy to fight a no holds barred war; but somehow we've managed to rationalize those extraordinary measures and incorporate them into routine practice. Every war, with few exceptions since WW2 has been framed as an all or nothing fight ... which to be honest, is becoming a little tiresome when clearly many of them were just instances of us bullying. Neither the Dominican Republic, North Vietnam Panama, Grenada, Afghanistan, nor Iraq were threatening our sovereignty or to enslave us. Imho, some of these conflicts could have been handled more honorably. Once implemented (even under extraordinary conditions), we just don't seem to have the moral fortitude to set aside reprehensible practices ... the ban on chem warfare is, however, a notable exception.

.....concentration camps (thanks ACW!)...... Thanks for taking the hit on that one - usually us Brits get the blame for those (Boer War). I prefer to acknowledge fault, fix it, and move on. Learning from your mistakes and all that. Idiots here like to characterize it as "Blame America First." Really, it's just supporting accountability ... for everyone, and not setting ourselves above the standard we espouse. Accountability, law and order, stressing equality under the law; it's all part of the same governance tradition.

"Although, even the Nazis observed some limits -- iirc they avoided bombing population centers until after the US/UK started the practice. I will leave the door open to being wrong on that point, as I'm certain Britons have a much more informed perspective on the aerial bombing campaigns of ww2." It started by accident IIRC – Hitler expressly banned bombing cities. However, London was bombed by mistake so the RAF bombed Berlin and so it began…

Ronan, who said that ? Mind you, I have no idea how much influence or insight the Admirality has regarding land warfare but he has a point regarding naval warfare where getting in the first strike may decide the naval war. Yet, I'm not so sure he was right regarding warfare in general. Moderation is a part of warfare, for political, practical or ethical reasons. Chemical, biological and nuclear weapons have been part of US, Soviet, French and British arsenals. If moderation in war is madness, why weren't they used ? Should one disregard civilian casualties at all times and thereby tie the proverbial hand behind one's back or is it better to limit them as much as possible without endangering the task at hand ?

even the Nazis observed some limits -- iirc they avoided bombing population centers until after the US/UK started the practice. I will leave the door open to being wrong on that point, as I'm certain Britons have a much more informed perspective on the aerial bombing campaigns of ww2.Who is actually attributed with the first bombing of civilians? London got bombed during WW1 and we bombed german targets(did we reach berlin during WW1?)I dont think the nazis held back bombing anyone Cornet remember Guernica,Warsaw and Rotterdam.I cant get my head around the Dresden bombing though today its called a war crime but thats todays thinking do you need to view it with a 1940's outlook or should the planners tried to tried to second guess later years public opinion and not gone ahead?

It started by accident IIRC – Hitler expressly banned bombing cities. However, London was bombed by mistake so the RAF bombed Berlin and so it began… Rotterdam might have been a mistake, I'm not sure. But certainly Warsaw was targetted deliberately ?

I think I'm probably wrong here and that it was the bombing of London itself that was banned.

Yes Hitler forbade attacks on London you are right Timmo my mistake,I dont know about Rotterdam though was it to force a wavering Government to capitulate that it was done?

Brian I don't know my knowledge is fairly narrow at the best of times especially when it comes to WW2.

No you are correct ive just read two accounts of the German raid,remember the film 'battle of britain' with the two german officers sent to Berlin for court martial then Berlin gets raided just after arrival this is largely accurate.

Placing certain targets 'off-limits' even when you're recieving fire from them is stupid. That's but one example of the kind of stupidity we engage in now. I don't care what kind of building it is, if you shoot at my guys from it it eats an iron bomb.

Okay, so right church, wrong pew -- that even the Nazis observed some limits seems accurate. As evil as they were, it's important to give the devil his due if only for the sake of our own integrity.

No you are correct ive just read two accounts of the German raid,remember the film 'battle of britain' with the two german officers sent to Berlin for court martial then Berlin gets raided just after arrival this is largely accurate. Yup I remember but I think other British cities had already been bombed by that point. What was the question? Ah yes who started it.

What was the question? Ah yes who started it.I was only musing on the question it really deserves its own thread you get the shelling of the north coast ports to throw into it during WW1 so its going to get all muddied up-best left.

"... the tank was filled with ball-bearings which were released in a fan shaped spray..." I'd like to think this resulted in people flailing for balance on a carpet of ball-bearings, windmilling their arms, while clown music played.

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